Ontario Legislation

[Derigol]

I am a new subscriber to CC and read recently in the Letters to Editor that Ontario had imposed some sort of legislation against riders. The author of this particular letter didn't go into details but mentioned in his letter that he was ticked that the government wouldn't pass legislation against cell phone users in cars but did pass some sort of legislation against bikes.
As I am moving from BC to Ontario this summer I was wondering if anyone knows what he was refering to? I am hoping it doesn't affect the insurance on bikes as my wife and I both ride and we have an 07 V-Star 1100 and an
04 Shadow 750.
Does anyone remember this letter and know what he was refering to?

[Rocking Couple]

Haven't seen the article, but suspect they were referring to the new racing/stunting law in Ontario. I'm not going to elaborate because already this reply alone, has raised a forehead vein. But just one of many aspects of this completely fucked/flawed law, especially were bikes are concerned, is that you can be charged for stunting just by stretching your legs or using your knees to help absorb an unexpected pothole or rock on the road, just as soon as your ass leaves the seat. :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Insurance ramifications? Abso-f'g-lutely.

[Uwe W.]

Does anyone remember this letter and know what he was refering to?

Welcome aboard Derigol.

He was referring to a relatively new law that is meant to crack down on street-racing and stunting.

Providing you don't do wheelies or travel 50km/h over the speed limit you won't risk being nailed with the massive fines, a vehicle impoundment and licence suspension that the police can now levy on the spot.

Given you and your wife are on cruisers, it shouldn't be anything to worry about. It's the mid-life-crisis Hayabusa owners that have something to prove who are shakin' in their boots.

By the way, what's your take on Harley's? ;)

[Malks]

The excerpt below was lifted right from the Ministry site. Break any one of these laws and you are walking home. Of special note for motorcyclists are:

2. (1) 3 ii. - leaving a stop faster than everyone else - hard not to do on a bike,
2. (1) 3 iii. - weaving through slower traffic that refuses to drive in the slow lane,
3. 1. - wheelies / stoppies - OK these are fairly easy to avoid,
3. 2. - wheel spin - again easily avoided but happens sometimes on cold roads,
3. 6. - standing on the pegs to stretch or absorb suspension shock from the lousy roads in this province,
3. 8. iv. (C) - using the superior acceleration of a bike to make a left turn before the opposing motorist wakes up.

Definition, “race” and “contest”
2. (1) For the purposes of section 172 of the Act, “race” and “contest” include any activity where one or more persons engage in any of the following driving behaviours:
1. Driving two or more motor vehicles at a rate of speed that is a marked departure from the lawful rate of speed and in a manner that indicates the drivers of the motor vehicles are engaged in a competition.
2. Driving a motor vehicle in a manner that indicates an intention to chase another motor vehicle.
3. Driving a motor vehicle without due care and attention, without reasonable consideration for other persons using the highway or in a manner that may endanger any person by,
i. driving a motor vehicle at a rate of speed that is a marked departure from the lawful rate of speed,
ii. outdistancing or attempting to outdistance one or more other motor vehicles while driving at a rate of speed that is a marked departure from the lawful rate of speed, or
iii. repeatedly changing lanes in close proximity to other vehicles so as to advance through the ordinary flow of traffic while driving at a rate of speed that is a marked departure from the lawful rate of speed. O. Reg. 455/07, s. 2 (1).
(2) In this section,
“marked departure from the lawful rate of speed” means a rate of speed that may limit the ability of a driver of a motor vehicle to prudently adjust to changing circumstances on the highway. O. Reg. 455/07, s. 2 (2).
Definition, “stunt”
3. For the purposes of section 172 of the Act, “stunt” includes any activity where one or more persons engage in any of the following driving behaviours:
1. Driving a motor vehicle in a manner that indicates an intention to lift some or all of its tires from the surface of the highway, including driving a motorcycle with only one wheel in contact with the ground, but not including the use of lift axles on commercial motor vehicles.
2. Driving a motor vehicle in a manner that indicates an intention to cause some or all of its tires to lose traction with the surface of the highway while turning.
3. Driving a motor vehicle in a manner that indicates an intention to spin it or cause it to circle, without maintaining control over it.
4. Driving two or more motor vehicles side by side or in proximity to each other, where one of the motor vehicles occupies a lane of traffic or other portion of the highway intended for use by oncoming traffic for a period of time that is longer than is reasonably required to pass another motor vehicle.
5. Driving a motor vehicle with a person in the trunk of the motor vehicle.
6. Driving a motor vehicle while the driver is not sitting in the driver’s seat.
7. Driving a motor vehicle at a rate of speed that is 50 kilometres per hour or more over the speed limit.
8. Driving a motor vehicle without due care and attention, without reasonable consideration for other persons using the highway or in a manner that may endanger any person by,
i. driving a motor vehicle in a manner that indicates an intention to prevent another vehicle from passing,
ii. stopping or slowing down a motor vehicle in a manner that indicates the driver’s sole intention in stopping or slowing down is to interfere with the movement of another vehicle by cutting off its passage on the highway or to cause another vehicle to stop or slow down in circumstances where the other vehicle would not ordinarily do so,
iii. driving a motor vehicle in a manner that indicates an intention to drive, without justification, as close as possible to another vehicle, pedestrian or fixed object on or near the highway, or
iv. making a left turn where,
(A) the driver is stopped at an intersection controlled by a traffic control signal system in response to a circular red indication;
(B) at least one vehicle facing the opposite direction is similarly stopped in response to a circular red indication; and
(C) the driver executes the left turn immediately before or after the system shows only a circular green indication in both directions and in a manner that indicates an intention to complete or attempt to complete the left turn before the vehicle facing the opposite direction is able to proceed straight through the intersection in response to the circular green indication facing that vehicle. O. Reg. 455/07, s. 3.

Welcome to Ontario.

[Derigol]

My wife loves them I really couldn't care less. They look nice and sound nice but in my opinion if it has two wheels and rides good and I have fun on it I love it.

I don't think I will be running out and buying one as I feel they, like BMW, Norton and similar companies are charging you for a name not for the bike itself. Granted most companies like HD and Norton produce higher quality bikes and the bikes may even increase in value with age but that doesn't matter to me.

Oh maybe I should mention that I have only been riding for a couple of years so just about anything with two wheels will still give me a thrill these days...lol

[Derigol]

Thanks for the info. Most of this seems common sense to me. Keeping in mind I ride a cruiser and I am still a novice rider so most stunting is out of my league. However there are a couple that made me question the sanity of either the politicians or other riders/drivers.
eg. these two.
5. Driving a motor vehicle with a person in the trunk of the motor vehicle.
6. Driving a motor vehicle while the driver is not sitting in the driver’s seat.

Ok so I can't stand and ride but I must be able to take the force of a bump on the pegs right?
Given that most laws are created as a response to a recurring problem in society, why would you put someone in your trunk? Were they alive? Does this happen a lot in Ontario?
Makes you wonder.
Anyway both my wife and I have been driving cars for 25+ years and she has had her bike license for 12 years and me for 2 but I am quite confident that we won't have any problems.

[Malks]

We also question the sanity of our politicians. Most of the drivers on the other hand, we know are insane!

[Uwe W.]

Ok so I can't stand and ride but I must be able to take the force of a bump on the pegs right?

Right. However, some of us stand on the pegs for longer periods, and I'm not about to change that. I'll take my chances getting pulled over for that one.


Given that most laws are created as a response to a recurring problem in society, why would you put someone in your trunk? Were they alive? Does this happen a lot in Ontario?

More often than you would think. Again, nothing for you to worry about; it mostly occurs to CC Forum members that bash Harleys and F-150s. Look for the shovel and bag of lime on the backseat of suspect vehicles.

[Derigol]

Don't think you have a monopoly on insane drivers out there. We have our fair share too, from the no shoulder check soccer mom talking on a cell phone in an SUV, to the young driver in a $50K+ vehicle who shouldn't be driving anything more expensive than an 80s vintage compact.
I actually grew up in Ontario but now I live in Victoria BC and we can ride for probably 11 months of the year out here but these people just make a hazardous situation such as rain slick roads, worse.
Oh and by the way the roads in Victoria are horrible. On my way to work I have a half dozen potholes that could swallow bike and rider whole, and we don't even get frost heave here!
Having said all this I wouldn't have it any other way. I would rather take my chances on my bike than being cooped up in my car. Unfortunately this time next year I will be the one complaining that winter isn't ending and I want to go riding.

[TimP]

it mostly occurs to CC Forum members that bash Harleys and F-150s. Look for the shovel and bag of lime on the backseat of suspect vehicles.

I'm allergic to lime. BTW, I wrote to my local MPP to request a private members' bill calling for concurrent ownership of Harleys and F150's to be punishable by fines, confiscation and jail time, because it just isn't right and should be stopped.

He said such ownership is equivalent to time served. Besides, he said, "We don't penalize the mentally infirm in Ontario".

[mrspock]

Let me see if my reading abilities have improved . you want to move TO the Peoples Republic of Ontario FROM BC ? Hmmmm , I can only guess that the quality of the wacky tabacy has improved there because NO ONE in thier right mind would want to make THAT fatal error .

Why do I say that you may ask ( yes , the voices in my head did hear you ask :-) ) Here in the people republic of ontario , we have insurance rates that can only be paid by those who are as yet uncaptured bank robbers and / or mobsters . Our drivers here , and espeicaly in Toe-wrong-tow , are REQUIRED to be brain dear BEFORE they are allowed to have a drivers license . Sidewalks here make great passing lanes .

Then there is the weather . ONE winter here and you will be packing your bags to head for the hills , the hill out west that is . ( oh yes , make enough room for me as you pack :-) )

Then there are our laws here . i do NOT under any circumstances blame out cops for this but rather , our money grabbing mobsters , oops , i mean politicians . ( sorry , I always get the two confused ) If the insurance rates don't kill ya , if the cost of a place to live does not bankrupt ya , if our brain dear drivers don't kill ya , I can almost garentee that you will need a rather large line of credit or thrid and forth morgage to pay for even the smallest of awards we have here .. for things like breathing , eating , walking , stretching your legs , watering your lawn , ...you get the idea .

I lived in Van. and Victoria for a number of years and to this day , I am question my sanity ( not to mention my spelling ) for moving here . I stay here now ONLY because I go to university here , otherwise , I would be out THERE faster than you can say " get outta town dude " .

Want to stay sane ? want to live an extra 50 years ? STAY in BC .


spock

[Derigol]

Staying in BC is easier said than done. You see one thing I didn't mention is that I am Navy and I have been posted to Ottawa. Don't fret it's all good. My family lives about 3 hours from Ottawa near Port Hope. The riding along Hwy 2 and Hwy 7 is good and best of all we are far enough from T.O. that I don't have to put up with them crazy Torontoians if I don't want to. Never in my life would I be crazy enough to live anywhere closer to T.O than Oshawa. Even that would be a stretch.
To be honest with you it is getting way too expensive to live in Victoria. I make good money with the CF and I can't afford to buy a house in Victoria. At least in Ontario I will be able to buy at a reasonable price. Keeping in mind I won't be living anywhere near T.O. Also it will be nice to be able to ride the long roads of Ontario for a change. I know the area between Port Hope and Ottawa pretty good and there is some beautiful riding around there. I really am looking forward to Ontario riding....except the long winters that is.

[mrspock]

From CFC Esquimalt by any chance ? I was there many years ago and worked in the base hospital . I was the one who did the hearing and heart testing there :-)

"... At least in Ontario I will be able to buy at a reasonable price. ... "

* is laughing his ass off inside :-) *

Ok , it is true the prices are a bit lower outside of the penal colony known as Toronto but more then you may be expecting , or thinking .

Ya . there are some pretty decent roads in your new area and of course in Quebec as well . Of course Ottawa has its own serious hazards ... we call them diplomats with red license plates who get away with things like killing pedestrians while drunk .... without any penalties ... but thats another story .


spock

[Derigol]

Yes I work at the Fleet School at Naden. Otherwise known as CFB Esquimalt.

Well the housing prices are still reasonable in ON. 250K will still buy a nice place especially if you dirve 20 min outside the city. In Victoria 250K doesn't even get you a one bedroom condo. 500K+ for a nice house now.

And yes you are right about the diplomats but if memory recalls they caught and tried that particular diplomat in Canada and not in Russia I think it was.

As far as riding in Quebec I don't think I will run the risk. Those Quebec drivers are too crazy even for this sailor.

As I type I am taking a course in St. Jean sur Richeleau just south of Montreal and the drivers here are really scary. Stop signs seem optional, there are no lines on the roads and well its just scary...lol
Although there have been a lot of bikes out this weekend here. Makes me homesick for my bike.

[mrspock]

".... As far as riding in Quebec I don't think I will run the risk. Those Quebec drivers are too crazy even for this sailor. ....


HAhahahaaaa ....Quebec drivers are TAME and laid back when compared to Toronto drivers . At least there they actually sort of see stop signs were as , here , stop signs are nothing more then road decoration to add some color to another wise boring pole or road surface .

spock

[Derigol]

I would like to try a trip to the East coast one summer. Did you ever catch that show on OLN called "The Great Canadian Motocycle Trek"?

[mrspock]

The title does not immediatly come to memory , however , I do seem to recall something about a show dedicated to riding to and in the east coast ...... awesome riding there for sure ... one of my fav destinations actually in Canada and , for me ( keeping in mind my own riding style is not exactly conventional ) pretty much a longer days ride to get there ( well , most of the eat coast anyway )


spock

[Dirtybill]

5. Driving a motor vehicle with a person in the trunk of the motor vehicle.


WOOHOO!!!!!!!!:D

Now the wife has to let me use the front seat in her car!!!!!!!!!

[Sidecar Bob]

6. Driving a motor vehicle while the driver is not sitting in the driver’s seat.
Does that mean that when I stand up on the pegs of my sidecar machine and edge out past the parked vehicle to see if anyting is oncoming before I pull out I could be done for stunting?

That's just nuts.

[Malks]

Does that mean that when I stand up on the pegs of my sidecar machine and edge out past the parked vehicle to see if anyting is oncoming before I pull out I could be done for stunting?

That's just nuts.

You are right on both counts Sidecar; the law states your ass must be in the drivers seat at all times. There is no exemption listed so the onus is on the officer to use his or her discretion. Frankly, this amount of discretionary powers in the hands of a single person scares the hell out of me.

[Swervin]

For all interested in Ontario.
Being a police officer and lifting your arse off the seat in my eyes does not constitute stunting.
But there are always a select few who will be an idiot.
If it happened to me I would take it to court, after cleared by proving my point I would sue the officer, individual department, Chief of Police and Police Services board.

Swervin

Highway Traffic Act
Code de la route

ONTARIO REGULATION 455/07

RACES, CONTESTS AND STUNTS

Consolidation Period: From September 30, 2007 to the e-Laws currency date.

No amendments.

This Regulation is made in English only.

Report to Registrar

1. (1) A police officer who requests, under clause 172 (5) (a) of the Act, that a person surrender his or her driver’s licence shall, before providing the person with the notice of suspension required by subsection 172 (10) of the Act, report the request and the following information to the Registrar:

1. The driver’s name.

2. If known, the driver’s address, date of birth and driver’s licence number.

3. The date and time of the request.

4. The location at which the alleged offence under subsection 172 (1) of the Act took place. O. Reg. 455/07, s. 1 (1).

(2) The report under subsection (1) shall be made by any form of telecommunication. O. Reg. 455/07, s. 1 (2).

(3) A police officer who has made a report under subsection (1) shall, as soon as practical after making the report, complete a form provided by the Registrar for that purpose and forward the completed form to the Registrar. O. Reg. 455/07, s. 1 (3).

Definition, “race” and “contest”

2. (1) For the purposes of section 172 of the Act, “race” and “contest” include any activity where one or more persons engage in any of the following driving behaviours:

1. Driving two or more motor vehicles at a rate of speed that is a marked departure from the lawful rate of speed and in a manner that indicates the drivers of the motor vehicles are engaged in a competition.

2. Driving a motor vehicle in a manner that indicates an intention to chase another motor vehicle.

3. Driving a motor vehicle without due care and attention, without reasonable consideration for other persons using the highway or in a manner that may endanger any person by,

i. driving a motor vehicle at a rate of speed that is a marked departure from the lawful rate of speed,

ii. outdistancing or attempting to outdistance one or more other motor vehicles while driving at a rate of speed that is a marked departure from the lawful rate of speed, or

iii. repeatedly changing lanes in close proximity to other vehicles so as to advance through the ordinary flow of traffic while driving at a rate of speed that is a marked departure from the lawful rate of speed. O. Reg. 455/07, s. 2 (1).

(2) In this section,

“marked departure from the lawful rate of speed” means a rate of speed that may limit the ability of a driver of a motor vehicle to prudently adjust to changing circumstances on the highway. O. Reg. 455/07, s. 2 (2).

Definition, “stunt”

3. For the purposes of section 172 of the Act, “stunt” includes any activity where one or more persons engage in any of the following driving behaviours:

1. Driving a motor vehicle in a manner that indicates an intention to lift some or all of its tires from the surface of the highway, including driving a motorcycle with only one wheel in contact with the ground, but not including the use of lift axles on commercial motor vehicles.

2. Driving a motor vehicle in a manner that indicates an intention to cause some or all of its tires to lose traction with the surface of the highway while turning.

3. Driving a motor vehicle in a manner that indicates an intention to spin it or cause it to circle, without maintaining control over it.

4. Driving two or more motor vehicles side by side or in proximity to each other, where one of the motor vehicles occupies a lane of traffic or other portion of the highway intended for use by oncoming traffic for a period of time that is longer than is reasonably required to pass another motor vehicle.

5. Driving a motor vehicle with a person in the trunk of the motor vehicle.

6. Driving a motor vehicle while the driver is not sitting in the driver’s seat.

7. Driving a motor vehicle at a rate of speed that is 50 kilometres per hour or more over the speed limit.

8. Driving a motor vehicle without due care and attention, without reasonable consideration for other persons using the highway or in a manner that may endanger any person by,

i. driving a motor vehicle in a manner that indicates an intention to prevent another vehicle from passing,

ii. stopping or slowing down a motor vehicle in a manner that indicates the driver’s sole intention in stopping or slowing down is to interfere with the movement of another vehicle by cutting off its passage on the highway or to cause another vehicle to stop or slow down in circumstances where the other vehicle would not ordinarily do so,

iii. driving a motor vehicle in a manner that indicates an intention to drive, without justification, as close as possible to another vehicle, pedestrian or fixed object on or near the highway, or

iv. making a left turn where,

(A) the driver is stopped at an intersection controlled by a traffic control signal system in response to a circular red indication;

(B) at least one vehicle facing the opposite direction is similarly stopped in response to a circular red indication; and

(C) the driver executes the left turn immediately before or after the system shows only a circular green indication in both directions and in a manner that indicates an intention to complete or attempt to complete the left turn before the vehicle facing the opposite direction is able to proceed straight through the intersection in response to the circular green indication facing that vehicle. O. Reg. 455/07, s. 3.

Exceptions

4. (1) Despite section 2, “race” and “contest” do not include,

(a) a rally, navigational rally or similar event that is conducted,

(i) under the supervision of the Canadian Association of Rally Sport,

(ii) under the supervision of a club or association approved in writing by the Ministry, or

(iii) with the written approval of the road authority or road authorities having jurisdiction over the highway or highways used;

(b) motor vehicle owners engaged in a tour, scenic drive, treasure hunt or other similar motoring event in which the participants drive responsibly and in a manner that indicates an overall intention to comply with the provisions of the Act; or

(c) an event held on a closed course with the written approval of the road authority having jurisdiction over the highway, including any event lawfully using any of the trademarks “CART”, “Formula One”, “Indy”, “IndyCar”, “IRL” or “NASCAR”. O. Reg. 455/07, s. 4 (1).

(2) Despite sections 2 and 3, “race”, “contest” and “stunt” do not include any activity required for the lawful operation of motor vehicles described in subsections 62 (15.1) or 128 (13) of the Act, or the lawful operation of an emergency vehicle as defined in subsection 144 (1) of the Act. O. Reg. 455/07, s. 4 (2).

5. Omitted (provides for coming into force of provisions of this Regulation). O. Reg. 455/07, s. 5.

Back to top

[Sidecar Bob]

I heard a report on Radio 1 a couple of mornings ago about the results of these laws. They said that a large number of the stunting charges are dropped when they get to court because the police are charging people incorrectly - charging people who do something that should not be charged or who should be charged with something different that would have less consequences.

Unfortunately, though, by the time it gets to court the person charged has already had their license suspension and has had to pay towing & impound charges and there is no provision for any reimbursement.

Interrestingly, the case they used as an example involved a fellow who was charged with stunting because he was caught splitting lanes.

[Ivor biggin]

Uwe mentioned a while ago about some rider sitting in the back seat of a cruiser while his bike was hauled onto a tow truck but, lets be fair, that has got to be the exception. When was the last time anyone saw a motorcyclist pulled over by the cops. The way that "biking" is going right now the majority of riders should be pulled off the road for holding up traffic.
IB.

[metalredneck]

Ivor; if by the "majority" you mean the gaggle of HD pylons holding up the RV drivers, I concur. On my evening commute home yesterday I was seriously held up by a crew of "Bros" clogging the road, two abreast, in a formation just tight enough as to make passing hazardous to all. It's getting so I wanna sell my bikes so I'm not associated with this scene at all. No wonder car drivers hate us.

*end rant*:mad:

[Ivor biggin]

Yes, my point exactly. I know that we`ve gone over this before but it seems to me that it is a very real problem. These guys are enjoying their sport the way that they want to, nothing wrong in that, but I can`t help feeling that most of them are new to motorcycling and think that they are safe riding in these convoys. They are not, they are a danger to themselves and to other road users.
Michelle Duff posted some safe riding tips on her website and she suggested that it was safer to ride at a pace that was slightly faster than that of the general flow of traffic. Good advice, I would say, even though she did concede that today most drivers travelled above the speed limit and you could attract the attention of the police if you followed her guideline.
I can`t think of a more dangerous situation to be in on a bike than to be in one of these slow moving cruiser processions. The lack of visibility, the distractions caused by other riders and the domino effect of somebody screwing up is reason enough to steer well clear of them.
IB.

[Sidecar Bob]

Someone should point out to the local constabulary that in Ontario any group of 5 or more vehicles travelling together in a group requires a parade permit. To stay within the law you are supposed to leave a break after every 5 vehicles so that safe passing is possible.

Re slightly faster: I have always believed that the safest speed to drive at is a bit faster than the vehicle behind you and a bit slower than the one in front of you.

[metalredneck]

Keep an eye on the news today, it's Frday13 in Dover. Maybe the rain will keep things sane, but pray for sanity.

[KZDon]

Heck, it's bike time all over Ontario - Port Dover, Paris CVMG Rally, and of course the famous 141Cafe event! I hear they're pulling in OPP from Sundridge for that one.