vfr1200

[Dennis The Menace]

I guess you guys may find out more on Oct 16 like you said. But I would really like to know if they axed the Vtec and braught back the gear driven cams. The HP and Torque #'s are at the crank I assume? So that will put the at the rear wheel numbers close to most 1000's. But with an extra 100lbs or so. I'll have to see one in the flesh, but that is the first thing that I have seen in a long while that would make me consider another bike. The only issue will probably be the price. I'm guessing $15,000 give or take a little.

[Rocking Couple]

Well, according to the numbers, i'd say this thing is going to be super-powerful. And I mean a real stormer.
Consider these rear wheel/real world numbers of an 03 ST tested in Aug02.
113.1 hp @ 7600 rpm (125 claimed at crank if i recall)
85.1 lb ft @ 6000 (88 lb ft - claimed, IIR)

weight 719 lb on real scales with it's 29 litres of fuel capacity topped up

VS. the vfr1200 (1237cc) (also shaft drive), but not rear wheel numbers

170 hp @ 10000 rpm - crank, claimed
95 lb ft @ 8750 rpm

weight 587 lb claimed - wet, but likely very optimistically light, since no one has put this thing on a some unbiased scales yet. In past some wet weights were done at half tanks - why, no one knows. (probably cuz so many tanks vary in size, but anyone comparing bikes can compare tank sizes and work out their own 6+ lb/gal differences).

So when you consider both these bikes (well actually, let's incl the diminutively sized vfr800 too for that matter, cuz it too is way quicker than any normal 800 bike of it's weight has a right to be) are tuned to really move (as opposed to tour)
and the fact that the 1300 will beat a Gold Wing's 1800 flat six in a race (and it just isn't that much lighter) we know that Honda intended for the 1300 (1261cc) to be no slouch, and neither will this new bike. The numbers on the ST, actually belie real world results. The ST will launch the front wheel in a 1st gear roll-on just a few grand off idle if you pin it. No clutch slipping or nothin'. Just roll the big bastard on. And it sits quite heavy on the fr wheel. So, IOW is stronger than the numbers suggest, just as the VFR800 is way stronger than it's lowly what? 56 lb ft? numbers say, I'm predicting the same with this VFR1200. I'll bet this thing will be impressively quick. Super fast. Sunken-eyeball-induced headache fast.

Too bad about the big rubber on the ass-end. They likely used that to offer more rubber to the ground in a straight line, but replacement is considerably more than the 180-55 std. 180-55's are a fair bit lighter too, so technically would have less unsprung weight mass to control also, and since it's a shafty, using smaller rubber would have assisted in this one small way.

I'm gonna guess 18000. to 18500. with some opt bags

edit - was thinking about this some more. I still think the big vfr is going to be extremely quick, but it did occur to me that there is less torque loss on the ST, since it's crank is inline and can run straight back to the rear hub. With the VFR1200, (and shafties like the FJR and Connie) there is one extra right angle involved to get the power straight to the drive shaft. There are no free rides on bikes whose crank sits at 90 deg in the frame, so will use up some of the numbers. It'll still be plenty strong though..

[newf]

I've been giving some thought to getting a new ride. FJR, ST, Sprint ST that kind of thing. Looks like I may have to put this on the list. I'd be curious to see it with some hard bags. Looking forward to getting some more info.

[TimP]

Hey, Newf! You could probably get a great deal on a Ulysses XB12XT right about now...:D

[Rocking Couple]

Here, first ride link: decided to nuke it, I'm looking forward to CC's take on this bike, and can wait till it happens.

you'll note a familiar face at the controls

and one of the funniest quotes I've ever read from him: "Admittedly, I found the sound at idle about as inspiring as a toddler banging on a bongo that has a loose-fitting drumhead." (must be due to the irregular firing order on it)

It's (being a Honda) not imitating any GM that I'm familiar with..

Uwe, if I shouldn't have posted this for some reason, just nuke it, sorry.

[Kanadian Ken]

EDIT - I'll wait for CC review as well. I nuked my comments.

If its in the mid/high teens - or low twenties - in the words of KRAMER - "I'm out!!". Too rich for my blood. I could buy an enclosed trailer and tow vehicle for that kind of donero - and get my ass down to NC as much as I want with my current VFR.

[Uwe W.]

Here, first ride link:
Uwe, if I shouldn't have posted this for some reason, just nuke it, sorry.


Nice to see Costa getting a SCOOP.


Big Brother doesn't live here, so no need to nuke any links. But I do want to clarify that the article referenced was not a "scoop"; it was part of a Honda Canada launch that we had also attended.

[Kanadian Ken]

Big Brother doesn't live here, so no need to nuke any links. But I do want to clarify that the article referenced was not a "scoop"; it was part of a Honda Canada launch that we had also attended.



Looking forward to CC version of the bike, but still wondering where my invite got sent when it was time to check it out? ;)

[Uwe W.]

UWE - Poor choice of word on my part - perhaps?

Not on your part Ken, but on their part for sure. I noticed they made that claim as part of their article. There's a good reason why you haven't seen our impression online yet - in fact theirs should have been pulled by now.

[KZDon]

Not on your part Ken, but on their part for sure. I noticed they made that claim as part of their article. There's a good reason why you haven't seen our impression online yet - in fact theirs should have been pulled by now.

Oooooh, sounds like politics. Does the privacy commissioner know about this? How about the ethics commissioner? And what does Muhammed Karzai think about the recount?

...maybe I'm on the wrong forum...

[KZDon]

...however, this is what is now on the CMG site...

It appears that there is an embargo on the VFR1200F first ride that we posted (though attending journalists were not told about it until today). As a result we have decided to remove the story but will repost by Monday 26th October.

Apologies to our readership for the delay.

But remember kids, you read it here first ...

"Goshdangit, Costa! Close that barn door before another horse gets out! What? That was the only horse? Don't we have a whole dang bunch of horses? Oh. Just the old ones, eh? Well, just pretend like ya didn't say nuthin'"

[Kanadian Ken]

EDITED OUT other review.

[Uwe W.]

It makes me feel all warm and fuzzy that you guys are posting reviews from other publications in the CC forum. :rolleyes:

[Kanadian Ken]

It makes me feel all warm and fuzzy that you guys are posting reviews from other publications in the CC forum. :rolleyes:

Just making sure you have some ammunition against the other publications that might have busted some sort of "rules" you all agreed to when you test rode the VFR. Not intended to rub you the wrong way. Don't want you going all CHERUBIC on my HUSKYself!!! ;)

Please please please please - when you get a new VFR1200 for more than 15 minutes, allow me to tag along with my 6th gen - it'll give you a great comparison tool. I'll hold the towels, or mix the drinks, or whatever the "fluffers" of motorcycle tests do.......... Oh - and I'll keep my mouth shut tight if that happens!

[KZDon]

It makes me feel all warm and fuzzy that you guys are posting reviews from other publications in the CC forum. :rolleyes:

We do that to fully demonstrate how chumpy (and almost identical) other reviews are (because we know CC's coverage will be so much more).

[newf]

When CC does get an opportunity to do a longer test do me a favour and post a video of the bike on line. I'd be interested to hear what it sounds like.

[Uwe W.]

When CC does get an opportunity to do a longer test do me a favour and post a video of the bike on line. I'd be interested to hear what it sounds like.

It's on the cover of the current issue. If you rifle through the pages in rapid succesion you'll come close to the right soundtrack, albeit a little low on volume.:D

[TimP]

Uwe, is it possible to upload sound files as attachments to our posts?

(I was gonna record a raspberry and post it as a VFR1200 sound clip. No point now, joke's out of the bag. But then so is the VFR1200. Go ahead and tell me it's impossible anyway, just to confirm.)

[Uwe W.]

Uwe, is it possible to upload sound files as attachments to our posts?

Not a problem. Press Ctrl S for three seconds, type in v-f-r-1-2-0-0 and speak loudly into your left hand. We'll be waiting.

[TimP]

Right. I see. It's because I use a Mac, isn't it. I should have known. You PC'ers all use your right hand, don't you?

Anyway, I tried it. This is what I got:

[Battleax]

My current VFR is not in the highest Quebec insurance class.
I suppose the 12 will be right up in the "sport motorcycle" class with the highest rate. Not that it would be an issue for anyone forking out 20k plus.

[Smiley]

Tim, I also am a (new) Mac user. The PC'ers are a bit shirty 'cause they get all those annoying pop-ups.

Never again will I use the rusty tools from the evil empire. PC's = 1960's Urals (without the reliabilty)

Looks like a good weekend for a ride here on the south coast RIGHT SWERVIN????

[Battleax]

Tim, I also am a (new) Mac user. The PC'ers are a bit shirty 'cause they get all those annoying pop-ups.

Never again will I use the rusty tools from the evil empire. PC's = 1960's Urals (without the reliabilty)

Looks like a good weekend for a ride here on the south coast RIGHT SWERVIN????

All tools, even rusty ones, are only as good as the user's knowledge and ability to operate them.

[TimP]

Smiley! You're a Mac! Uwe's a PC!

I'm sensing a new TV commercial opportunity coming on...

vis:

Smiley: "Hello, I'm a Mac..."
Uwe: "Hello, I'm a PC..."
Smiley: "Hey, PC, why are you taking off your clothes?"...

[Dennis The Menace]

Ha ha ha ha.

As funny as that is.

I don't think anyone wants to see that again.

[Nitro]

It might sound good on paper but unless they clean up the front & change the can I'm keeping my '99. Yeah, I know the cat's in the can but maybe it shoulda been placed closer to the engine so it doesn't look like a little Airstream trailer down there.

[yzf1000jon]

2010 is the year of the UGLY, new VFR and new Multistrada prove my point. I've got a chainsaw if anyone can point me to the relevant ugly tree they fell out of, I'd be more than willing...

[Battleax]

Of course ugly is in the eye of the beholder. The 98-01 VFR was and still is the prettiest of the line, the 02 to current is the ugliest.
The 1200 is one of the better looking bikes in my opinion. Finally something without the horrible "cat's eyes" look, not to mention all the super-ugly naked bikes that all follow the same design formula.

I will buy the 12, as far as the questionable muffler, I understand the technology behind it and that is beautiful, so it's look becomes irrelevant.

[Dennis The Menace]

I have been reading some preliminary reviews. Almost $20,000-$21,000, no fully ajustable suspension, or hard bags, or heated grips standard. At least the Vtec is gone and the remote rear preload adjuster is there. For that much money I would just buy the k1300. Or a new car, after you add everything else onto it. And the automatic thing. Has got the label of I can't really ride a motorcycle written all over it.

[Rocking Couple]

Wasn't able to get to the show again this year. But I don't feel so badly about it now since hearing that the VFR1200 was on one of those elevated turntables. If I was wealthy and wanted to rule it out on my short list, for my 16 bucks admission, I'd damn well want that bike under my ass.

I hear Triumph had Do Not Sit signs, but if you (knew/moxie enough to) ask, they would let you sit on them.

I would have liked to say hi to Brenda and Uwe though.

[yzf1000jon]

I saw the viffer 12 at the show and though I appreciate what honda did when they finally gave it a motor I can't get over the front end styling. It was especially homely beside the white vfr800 with the black racing stripe, almost as sharp as the white with red and blue edition. But those were too much money for not nearly enough oomph for me.

[gsxrwolf]

Saw one for the first time a couple of days ago. Wowsa!!

If you need one, it's in Regina at Alsport Sales.

[wouldrichest]

Well, according to the numbers, i'd say this thing is going to be super-powerful. And I mean a real stormer.
Consider these rear wheel/real world numbers of an 03 ST tested in Aug02.
113.1 hp @ 7600 rpm (125 claimed at crank if i recall)
85.1 lb ft @ 6000 (88 lb ft - claimed, IIR)

weight 719 lb on real scales with it's 29 litres of fuel capacity topped up

VS. the vfr1200 (1237cc) (also shaft drive), but not rear wheel numbers

170 hp @ 10000 rpm - crank, claimed
95 lb ft @ 8750 rpm

weight 587 lb claimed - wet, but likely very optimistically light, since no one has put this thing on a some unbiased scales yet. In past some wet weights were done at half tanks - why, no one knows. (probably cuz so many tanks vary in size, but anyone comparing bikes can compare tank sizes and work out their own 6+ lb/gal differences).

So when you consider both these bikes (well actually, let's incl the diminutively sized vfr800 too for that matter, cuz it too is way quicker than any normal 800 bike of it's weight has a right to be) are tuned to really move (as opposed to tour)
and the fact that the 1300 will beat a Gold Wing's 1800 flat six in a race (and it just isn't that much lighter) we know that Honda intended for the 1300 (1261cc) to be no slouch, and neither will this new bike. The numbers on the ST, actually belie real world results. The ST will launch the front wheel in a 1st gear roll-on just a few grand off idle if you pin it. No clutch slipping or nothin'. Just roll the big bastard on. And it sits quite heavy on the fr wheel. So, IOW is stronger than the numbers suggest, just as the VFR800 is way stronger than it's lowly what? 56 lb ft? numbers say, I'm predicting the same with this VFR1200. I'll bet this thing will be impressively quick. Super fast. Sunken-eyeball-induced headache fast.

Too bad about the big rubber on the ass-end. They likely used that to offer more rubber to the ground in a straight line, but replacement is considerably more than the 180-55 std. 180-55's are a fair bit lighter too, so technically would have less unsprung weight mass to control also, and since it's a shafty, using smaller rubber would have assisted in this one small way.

I'm gonna guess 18000. to 18500. with some opt bags

edit - was thinking about this some more. I still think the big vfr is going to be extremely quick, but it did occur to me that there is less torque loss on the ST, since it's crank is inline and can run straight back to the rear hub. With the VFR1200, (and shafties like the FJR and Connie) there is one extra right angle involved to get the power straight to the drive shaft. There are no free rides on bikes whose crank sits at 90 deg in the frame, so will use up some of the numbers. It'll still be plenty strong though..

I've been giving some thought to getting a new ride. FJR, ST, Sprint ST that kind of thing. Looks like I may have to put this on the list. I'd be curious to see it with some hard bags. Looking forward to getting some more info.
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________________

[Kootenanny]

Not the most compelling review I've ever read: http://hellforleathermagazine.com/2010/07/2010-honda-vfr1200f-taking-sha.html

[Battleax]

Not the most compelling review I've ever read: http://hellforleathermagazine.com/2010/07/2010-honda-vfr1200f-taking-sha.html

Hell For Leather? Hard to take that seriously.
So the 12 isn't a track bike, no big surprise here.

[Rocking Couple]

Sounds overly critical. And there is at least one part that causes the entire review to lose credibility if you ask me. It's when he says:

"All that and I still have to wait until the bike's virtually upright before really getting on the throttle, it's snatchy too, and the too-soft rear end plummets when you're on the throttle. "

What a bunch of hooey. The ass end does not plummet on acceleration, Mr. Wes Siler! If the torque is not being controlled enough, then if you feel it go anywhere, it will rise. :rolleyes: And i was amazed that in all those comments not one of those guys picked up on that.

So out of the rest of what he says, possibly, just possibly Honda has screwed up with limited peg grd clearance. I know on my 01 the right side head pipe last bend before the CAT would touch down before the peg did. And it was an ouch cuz every time you did it, you knew one of those touches was going to be costly. It got so i became more reserved on rights cuz I didn't need to see a hole ground through the pipe.

But I don't mean to be defending it too much. You all know I think the bike is over-priced for what it is. And the 18 litre tank would be laughable if it wasn't such a gong to someone who shells out pretty huge bucks for an automatic. (Yes i know that was a shot, and that it has a manual mode). :rolleyes: But I also find it hard to believe it is as slow as Wes claims. Of course it is no Busa beater, but he really slammed that thing.

[motrhead]

Rear suspension behaviour is not that straightforward. If the springing is too soft, and the weight transfers hard to the rear, it could squat (especially with that long swing arm). Some shafties really lift the rear under acceleration (V-Max comes to mind), but some others are more neutral, especially with the longer swing arms. It's all a bit of a black art ;)
There is a very good book on suspension dynamics here:
http://tonyfoale.com/
I have been thinking about scratch building my own bike chassis for a while, so I got right into the whole chassis dynamic thing...it's pretty amazing what you can get away with! Tony Foale has built bikes with 0' rake that were perfectly rideable. I'm planning to build a Hossack suspended, 15' raked bike, "one of these days" with one of the two engines in my shed. (I build stuff for a living.)
I tend to agree with what you are saying in general, but the latest generation of shafties have overcome much of the bad behaviour, so I would have to see it or ride it in person before saying it was BS -though I do normally expect shafties to rise.
It is possible to make a chain drive bike rise or squat on acceleration depending on where the swingarm pivot is located, so I'm pretty sure you could mess with the swingarm pivot point enough to counter the pinion climbing the ring (in combination with a long arm).
I have been quite impressed with "Hell for Leather" Mag; they seem to tell it like it is. However ...the idea of criticizing the poor track performance of a big plush GT of a bike like the VFR is kind of humorous. I don't think the FJR1300 would fare any better.

[Kootenanny]

...the idea of criticizing the poor track performance of a big plush GT of a bike like the VFR is kind of humorous. I don't think the FJR1300 would fare any better.
Actually, the writer addresses this issue in the article, talking about how he didn't expect the VFR to be a track star, but he also didn't expect it to be as bad as he thought it was. And he mentions several other "big" bikes he's taken to the track and had fun on.

So, what is the VFR 1200? What I see is an overweight, oversize, overplush, overengineered, overdone example of what the marketers at Honda seem to think American motorcyclists want...hmmm...these are the same folks who brought you the DN-01...

BTW, I agree with you about the rear end squat thing...and I have read some pretty good articles on HFL.

[motrhead]

Actually, the writer addresses this issue in the article, talking about how he didn't expect the VFR to be a track star, but he also didn't expect it to be as bad as he thought it was. And he mentions several other "big" bikes he's taken to the track and had fun on.

So, what is the VFR 1200? What I see is an overweight, oversize, overplush, overengineered, overdone example of what the marketers at Honda seem to think American motorcyclists want...hmmm...these are the same folks who brought you the DN-01...

Yes, Honda seems to miss the mark quite often lately. When I was younger, I drank their kool-aid. Now that I have owned a few bikes, I have moved on to more suitable bikes for me. If someone likes Accords and Camrys, they will probably like the current Hondas. I'm more of an RX7/RX-8 kinda guy...maybe that explains my Yamahas. I like some personality:D

[Battleax]

snip
What I see is an overweight, oversize, overplush, overengineered, overdone example of what the marketers at Honda seem to think American motorcyclists want
snip


You really need to do more than look at magazine pictures

[yzf1000jon]

I did, I sat on it, and guess what, that's exactly what it is.

[Battleax]

I did, I sat on it, and guess what, that's exactly what it is.


LOL, You sat on it? Well that's just super http://www.passionperformance.ca/community/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif

[yzf1000jon]

Hahaha, coming from you that's no surprise. I have a Viffer fanatic friend that was always upset when we compared his 92 with a Katana. He, having drunk the Honda Kool-aid, believed the wing on the tank was worth the extra price of admission. I thought it was a perfectly nice bike (the first gen 800 too). I like bikes that are more fun than just nice, but that's just me.

[Battleax]

Hahaha, coming from you that's no surprise. I have a Viffer fanatic friend that was always upset when we compared his 92 with a Katana. He, having drunk the Honda Kool-aid, believed the wing on the tank was worth the extra price of admission. I thought it was a perfectly nice bike (the first gen 800 too). I like bikes that are more fun than just nice, but that's just me.

Brand has nothing to do with it as far as I'm concerned, but the "kool aid" phrase is always quoted by people who are very concerned about brand.

You know nothing about the 1200 so I was simply laughing at your baseless opinion of it.
I got a kick out of it.

[yzf1000jon]

So, what is the VFR 1200? What I see is an overweight, oversize, overplush, overdone example

This is the comment I was responding to. And guess what, when sitting on a bike you can tell if it's overweight, because it's a heave to lift off the stand, oversize, because that front end is huge from in the seat, overplush, cuz with my ass on the seat it sinks on the suspension more than it should, and overdone because I'd rather a metallic charcoal, or the ubiquitous sport touring grey than a 70's inspired candy red. So I know it's only my opnion, but the response was based on something, funny or otherwise. My frustration with Honda is they coulda shoulda, but never will. Give us a Concours beater with a wing on the tank and we'll talk, but I'll bet serious coin it won't happen.

[Kootenanny]

So, I had the chance to ride a VFR1200 at my local Honda dealer earlier today. I'd gone down to see a retro bike event, but got there after they'd all left for a group ride...but then the owner suggested I take out the new VFR1200 demo he'd just received yesterday (it had only about 160 km on it!).

So, it's a large, heavy bike, but the seat height is quite low and it's easy enough to manage. The riding ergos work well for me, but then I'm 5'4" tall...taller guys might find the pegs a bit close to the seat. The bars are a comfortable height and in a nice position.

On the highway, the bike gains speed quickly--it's one of those bikes that doesn't feel fast, so I'm surprised to see over 150 km/h on the speedo when I look down. It handled just fine for me, but then I didn't take it through any really spirited twisties. It is very much a Honda, which is, it is smooth and easy to ride--almost too easy--and feels much like a 2-wheeled Honda car.

I did have a few issues. One minor one is that the (very large) horn button is placed right where I'm used to having the turn signal control, which is placed lower down--this meant that every time I go to turn a signal on or off, I beeped the horn. More annoying is the high-frequency vibration that the bike develops at about 4,500 rpm and up...I'm short and ride with my 'nads against the tank, and it was quite tingly...(people complain about Buells vibrating, but my 'Bolt does NOT do this).

Overall, the VFR1200 is a nice enough bike, but...well, I'm not gonna be running out to buy one (and I'm one of the few guys who might actually like the ergos!). It is too much of an appliance for me, sorry...it goes along just fine, but it doesn't excite me very much...and the tingling nads I can do without.

[Rocking Couple]

So, I had the chance to ride a VFR1200 at my local Honda dealer earlier today.
snip
More annoying is the high-frequency vibration that the bike develops at about 4,500 rpm and up...I'm short and ride with my 'nads against the tank, and it was quite tingly...(people complain about Buells vibrating, but my 'Bolt does NOT do this).



Interesting ride report. What is shocking is that Honda expects owners to put up with vibration of any sort on this bike... of all bikes. It looks like they really screwed it up.

And 4500 rpm is still going to be in use anywhere the highway opens up a bit.

I wonder if it has balance shaft adjustments that are outta whack. I would mention it to the guy. Sounds like a decent sort, and it might help him sell more. The ST has these. But of course few bikes on the planet cover bases like the ST does. :D

But like I have always said, no two engines come off an assembly line side by side that are balanced the same. But what you describe, is obviously greater imbalance than just assembly line differences.

It sure would be sad if even Honda has started to compromise their engine build reputation by outsourcing cheaper parts in the never-ending quest to pad their bottom line.

If I see a demo ride I am still going to want to ride the bike, being a long time VFR fan and all. But then I am just as curious to ride a DN01. No I would never buy one given what I have read about it so far, but those floor boards keep beckoning me.

[Kootenanny]

IIf I see a demo ride I am still going to want to ride the bike, being a long time VFR fan and all. But then I am just as curious to ride a DN01. No I would never buy one given what I have read about it so far, but those floor boards keep beckoning me.
I'm always interested in riding other bikes, even ones I have absolutely no interest in owning...I've attended several Victory demo rides (even rode the Vision when it first came out), and at various other demo rides I've sampled many other large cruisers, a Yamaha Majesty 400 scooter, and several "retro" Triumphs and Ducatis. I'm always interested in how any bike feels, and why others might be attracted to these bikes.

I rode the VFR1200 because it was availbable (and this wasn't an organized group demo ride--I just took the bike out on my own for a while:)), and because of all the hype surrounding it. I mean, ya gotta try things out!

[Battleax]

Hahaha, coming from you that's no surprise. I have a Viffer fanatic friend that was always upset when we compared his 92 with a Katana. He, having drunk the Honda Kool-aid, believed the wing on the tank was worth the extra price of admission. I thought it was a perfectly nice bike (the first gen 800 too). I like bikes that are more fun than just nice, but that's just me.

So...yea, I think I could safely say the 1200 handles a lot better and is a lot more fun to ride than any bike with a screwed up, topped out fork :cool:

[yzf1000jon]

That's just one of three in my garage, the one that handles best has Ohlins ft and rear, but won't be my track mule, it's just too pretty!;)

[newf]

I recently had an opportunity to test ride the new VFR during a visit to Ontario. Overall I liked the VFR's power and found the breaks phenominal. The transmission was also slick. I did find the clutch lever was a bit more of a pull than I was used to and found my clutch hand getting tired at one stop sign when I had the clutch pulled tight for an extended period of time.

I can't say as I noticed any vibration; however, I was in a demo ride and therefore might not have noticed. As kootenay pointed out the bike is easy to ride and you would have to watch your speed as it doesn't feel it is going as fast as it is.

I'd consider buying one but aren't overly struck on the look of the bike, but who knows. Interestingly I had an opportunity to sit on a new K1300s prior to my jaunt on the VFR and was surprised by how much larger that bike felt as opposed to VFR despite the VFR's reported increased weight differential.

Has anyone seen a VFR outside of the captivity of the show room? Of the couple of honda dealers I visited while on vacation everyone had at least one, and I can't recall seeing any on the streets. It also didn't seem to be garnering much attention on the demo ride either. Most people seemed to be interested in the cruisers or the pure sport bikes.

[Kootenanny]

I recently had an opportunity to test ride the new VFR during a visit to Ontario. Overall I liked the VFR's power and found the breaks phenominal. The transmission was also slick. I did find the clutch lever was a bit more of a pull than I was used to and found my clutch hand getting tired at one stop sign when I had the clutch pulled tight for an extended period of time.
I found the brakes good, the transmission very slick, and I never even noticed the clutch...but then again, my own bike is a Buell, which has great brakes, a somewhat...well, clunky...transmission, and as far as the clutch is concerned, well, I'm used to a "manly" clutch pull...;)

[TimP]

So, I'm curious. Using Jon's "4 wheels moves the body, two wheels move the soul" analogy, and having seen said VFR in the flesh (on the plinth at the show and more recently in a local showroom - where I have to say it looked much smaller than on the plinth but that's all I can say because they wouldn't even let me sit on it...) I have this to ask:

How does Honda so effectively move my (our? your?) body with only two wheels but absolutely fail to move my soul with this bike regardless of the axle count?

Does a bike have to have something wrong with it to make me fall in love?

[motrhead]

How does Honda so effectively move my (our? your?) body with only two wheels but absolutely fail to move my soul with this bike regardless of the axle count?

Does a bike have to have something wrong with it to make me fall in love?

LOL. That's about how I see it. I like something with some quirks and "personality". I ended up with a Camry (by accident) for a while, and I hated every minute with it...Bland, with a capital B. My Renault was way more fun (and a better car in every way to boot).

[TimP]

My Renault was way more fun (and a better car in every way to boot).

Exactly! As the past owner of a 1979 Fiat X1/9 (seven starter motors and seven alternators in seven years of the most fun I've had in a car) I can only hope Chrysler doesn't overly sanitize the Cinquecento when they finally bring it here.

But you know they will.



p.s. My Dad bought a Renault 10 back in '68 to replace his Sunbeam Imp. It came with a crank starter / jack crank that you could use to start it if the battery died. We used to fire it up with two spark plug leads pulled just to see if it would go. It always did. Wouldn't run on just one cylinder, though.

[Kootenanny]

How does Honda so effectively move my (our? your?) body with only two wheels but absolutely fail to move my soul with this bike regardless of the axle count?

Does a bike have to have something wrong with it to make me fall in love?
I hear ya! I dunno why, but...well, all of the Big Four makers seem to fall into this boat (although Honda seems to be at the front of the pack).

And no, a bike doesn't have to have anything "wrong" with it, but...it's gotta feel like a motorcycle, not a 2-wheeled Camry. If that's "something wrong with it," so be it.

[motrhead]

I'm afraid we may be in the minority here. We are Enthusiasts. The guys that buy the Camry, Accord and Taurus would probably be the same guys buying Goldwings, ST1300s, FJRs, V Star 1100s and maybe even the R1200RT...polished, functional and comfortable appliances, but somehow lacking in enthusiasm- because those buyers aren't looking for the same kind of excitement we are. Sales numbers don't lie...these bikes (and cars) seems to be what the mainstream buyer wants.
That brings me back to Yamaha, who used to sneak their exciting Euro bikes into Canada (thank God, or whoever was running things there!). I think Transport Canada has finally made it too expensive to do much of that any more (as the current issue of Cycle Canada pointed out, US certification allows the bikes into Canada -which is bullshit as far as I'm concerned because Euro standards are probably higher), but back in the day we got fun stuff like the TDR250 and the RZ350F2 (too bad we missed out on the TRX850). Now if you want exciting, it's pretty much a choice of a Ducati, Triumph or a race replica sport bike. Yes, that is over-simplification, but that's how I see things...

[yzf1000jon]

It doesn't have to have something wrong, just a "personality". Having said that, the vfr1200T looks WAY better than the F in my eyes, even with the "bumper".

[newf]

I have to agree with YZF1000Jon. I'm not looking for the bike to have some flaw or be tempermental, in fact I want it to work exceptionally well I just want it to make me smile when I look at it, and the VFR doesn't. Its a honda and it's all about the function, looks be damned. Again its not an ugly bike, but it doesn't move me figuratively. I guess I'm more shallow than I thought.

Honda is a very clinical company and their engineering and quality is likely second to none, but they are very hum drum in appearance with a few exceptions.

I was able to visit a ducati dealership (first time) during a recent trip to Ontario, and I could literally feel my heart rate increase as I looked at the bikes. Would I buy one, probably not, as I see them as termpermental and unidirectional, but they sure do look purty. I know what about the multistrada, but thats one fugly bike.

I believe the solution to my problem is to buy more than one bike e.g. one of either a ducati 1098, streetfighter, daytona 675, and concours for the other 95% of time. Unfortunately thats not in the cards.

BTW-There is nothing wrong with a ford taurus, just get the SHO 360 hp version.

[Kootenanny]

Honda is a very clinical company and their engineering and quality is likely second to none, but they are very hum drum in appearance with a few exceptions.

I was able to visit a ducati dealership (first time) during a recent trip to Ontario, and I could literally feel my heart rate increase as I looked at the bikes. Would I buy one, probably not, as I see them as termpermental and unidirectional, but they sure do look purty. I know what about the multistrada, but thats one fugly bike.
Exactly what we're talking about. Honda is building product, with input from a very competent engineering division, but also from a marketing division which feels that the best way to please everyone is to offend no-one. So they build cars (and bikes) with looks that are rather bland and boring, but inoffensive...few people are going to say they "hate" the looks of a Honda, but just as few are gonna "love" the looks.

Contrast that with Ducati, a company which realizes that passion is part of the game; they build motorcycles, not simply "product," and their bikes are designed with the realization that although not everyone will like the looks or are gonna be willing to put up with some discomfort in return for performance, those who DO will be very loyal. Ducati is a company which is willing to produce both the 1198 and the Multistrada (both of which deliver edgy styling and great performance, although the two are quite different). They also produce bikes like the 796 HM (which is a BLAST to ride) and the Streetfighter...

I see this as partially due to cultural differences. Japanese culture seems a bit less individualistic, and they build more generic products for the masses. European culture (especially Italian) might be a bit more passionate...they certainly seem to embrace fashion and cuisine...

[KZDon]

Okay, I'll weigh in with my completely subjective review of the VFR1200 not having seen it up close (saw it at the bike shows in the winter at a distance) and not having ridden it (the latter would seem to follow the former, wouldn't it).

It's ugly.

Aside from that, it looks rather bland and not particularly passenger friendly. I disagree with the VFR-istas that the 800 needed more displacement. The VFR800 filled a void that existed in the rest of motorcycling particularly well. It was a sweet engine that easily ate up highway miles and sounded incredible (even with the early VTEC engine at 6500 RPM).

Now, Honda has stepped into an arena filled with a number of class-leading and very competent motorcycles, with a VFR that seeks to bridge Autobahn Hayabusas and K1300s, and supersporttouring Concours, R1200RTs, K1300GTs, FJRs.... and so on, and, well, Honda hasn't convinced me yet with its marketting efforts that they've succeeded either way. And really, before wanting to see or ride a bike in person, we need to be convinced we want to do just those things.

I see the VFR1200 as an overpriced replacement for the CBR1100XX Blackbird and an abandonment of the VFR800. Yamaha must be very pleased as it releases its FZ8 line of motorcycles, right into the Honda void.

Other motorcycle companies have done the kind of high end experimentation Honda has made on the new VFR with some success. Yamaha had its GT1000, for example. Honda had the Rune, and way back, its Hondamatics. But those bikes were released as separate and distinct motorcycles, not as the flagship of the line following on from an existing success story.

I stand to be proven wrong, but I don't see that there will be lineups to buy the new VFR. Its new toy automatic transmission, competent or not, will have the staying power of Yamaha's FJR clutchless design (gone now) and all the silly slapshift transmissions that came out on commuter cars several years ago (now also mercifully gone, but plaguing the used car market with unsellable 3 series BMWs). Then, of course, the erstwhile VFR1200 buyer will also know all about the new Triumph Sprint GT, fully equipped, with that soulful sounding triple, for about $6000 less than the VFR...

Those are my thoughts, anyway.

[Kootenanny]

Other motorcycle companies have done the kind of high end experimentation Honda has made on the new VFR with some success. Yamaha had its GT1000, for example. Honda had the Rune, and way back, its Hondamatics. But those bikes were released as separate and distinct motorcycles, not as the flagship of the line.
Howzabout the Suzuki RE5, or the Norton 588 rotary? Or the Bimota V-Due? Or, for a truly out-there idea (and much like the VFR 1200, an answer to a question that's never been asked), how about:

http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/b/d/2/54398/selfbalancingbike-0.jpg?rev=0

[yzf1000jon]

It won't stand up on its own, but the VFR1200T (replacing the ST13) has a front bumper that's supposed to keep the bike from going over forward upon impact, it makes the headlight unit way more attractive than the 1200F IMO.

[phobe]

Okay, I'll weigh in with my completely subjective review of the VFR1200 not having seen it up close (saw it at the bike shows in the winter at a distance) and not having ridden it (the latter would seem to follow the former, wouldn't it).


Put a few hundred miles on one and get back to us. ;)


http://vfr1200fa.blogspot.com

[leenco12]

EDIT - I'll wait for CC review as well. I nuked my comments.

If its in the mid/high teens - or low twenties - in the words of KRAMER - "I'm out!!". Too rich for my blood. I could buy an enclosed trailer and tow vehicle for that kind of donero - and get my ass down to NC as much as I want with my current VFR.


Big Brother doesn't live here, so no need to nuke any links. But I do want to clarify that the article referenced was not a "scoop"; it was part of a Honda Canada launch that we had also attended.
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[motrhead]

Put a few hundred miles on one and get back to us. ;)


http://vfr1200fa.blogspot.com
Hey I know you! You're that VFR1200 zealot with the rose colored glasses! LOL
Good to see you here. Glad yours is making you happy.
I didn't ask you on your blog, but just out of curiosity (if you don't mind telling), what do you weigh?

[Benellipaul]

my girl was complaining that all she wanted was a good sport touring bike around 800 cc? a VFR800 in witchita kansas on ebay , 3000km $6400.00CDN downside was she had to fly down and pick it up, the poor girl had to ride through Wyoming colorado and Montana, then across southern BC, whew, wait, thats an upside...
anyhow it is a fabulous bike. I work in the motorcycle industry, the build quality is incredible.
to Honda, it wasnt broke, why did you not offer both the 800 and the 1200?
do they not know we have to pay for insurance evey year?
humph.

[Battleax]

snip
why did you not offer both the 800 and the 1200?
snip


Well they do offer an 800 and 1200

[yzf1000jon]

And the Yamaha FZ8 may fill in if honda pulls the plug on the 800, which hasn't been rumoured yet.

[KZDon]

Honda Canada still shows the VFR800 on its website, but it's a 2009. It is no longer shown on the US website. The UK site shows a 2009 model as well.

Sadly, the VFR800 was probably not a big seller, mostly because of its price - listed at over $15K. The new Yamaha Fazer 8 lists for $5000 less.

[Battleax]

Honda Canada still shows the VFR800 on its website, but it's a 2009. It is no longer shown on the US website. The UK site shows a 2009 model as well.

Sadly, the VFR800 was probably not a big seller, mostly because of its price - listed at over $15K. The new Yamaha Fazer 8 lists for $5000 less.

I don't know where you've seen the 800s at over 15k, I've never seen one sold for over 13k, and it seems to be one on every corner around here.
Not sure you can compare a Fazer to a VFR, regardless of price difference.

[yzf1000jon]

Not sure you can compare a Fazer to a VFR, regardless of price difference.
True, higher spec suspension, better brakes, more horsepower... Even if the Yammie is only a half faired sport tourer it looks to have the edge.:cool:

[KZDon]

$18,299 MSRP for the new VFR (without the dual clutch) on the Honda Canada website, and $15,299 MSRP for a 2009 VFR800.

I haven't priced a VFR800 new in quite some time, probably because the nearest Honda dealer to me is the Powerhouse in Barrie. And if they suck at selling bikes as bad as they do with cars, there's no point in even trying.

For the record, VFR800s were on my very short list when I landed my VStrom. And when I test rode one of the latest iterations it sure felt like my bike. I'm sure the VFR1200 will impress even more, but for such a premium price it makes my VStrom look pretty.

[Battleax]

True, higher spec suspension, better brakes, more horsepower... Even if the Yammie is only a half faired sport tourer it looks to have the edge.:cool:

One would certainly think so looking at specs, but with the VFR the sum is so much more than the total of all the parts, and the Yammie is just another Yammi

It's all about what you want to see idling in front of you in your lane way while your ear plugs expand

[phobe]

Hey I know you! You're that VFR1200 zealot with the rose colored glasses! LOL
Good to see you here. Glad yours is making you happy.
I didn't ask you on your blog, but just out of curiosity (if you don't mind telling), what do you weigh?

Buck seventy five.

Zealot? I don't know... opinionated definitely. A zealot would be more like someone who posts a lengthy review of a bike they've sat in for 5 minutes and farted in the seat.

I've had plenty of other motorcycles that have made me happy... all Hondas of course. ;)