Erik Buell

[RickO]

I enjoyed the article "Erik Buell: 25 Years at the Helm" in the Sept-Oct issue.

I shook Erik Buell's hand at the Buell booth at a bike show at Daytona many years ago -- I believe it was 1990. The eccentric sport bikes he had on display seemed out of place surrounded by choppers and black leather, but he came across as upbeat and undaunted.

Hard to say how things might have worked out if he had hooked up with a company other than HD. His radical chassis designs -- certainly on a par with other maverick designers like John Britten -- have always been hamstrung by his dogged loyalty to the Sportster-derived engine. HD's recent acquisition of MV Agusta casts doubt on the future of Buell motorcycles. Is there room in Harley showrooms for not one but two different lines of sportbikes?

[YellowDuck]

It will be a cold day in Vancouver when you see MVs sold in a Harley dealership...for the same reason you can't by a Jaguar or a Volvo at your Ford dealer. Fret not.

[KZDon]

We saw him, but didn't have a chance to speak with him at the IndyGP. He was perched on one of the variations of the XB bikes, looking rather laid back.

I really like the adventure tourer version of the XB12 (XB12X and XT I think). The innovations on the bike go far beyond the fuel and oil in frame design. However, I'm just not prepared to consider spending BMW type dollars on that sportster engine. Maybe with the Rotax and Agusta connections Erik can get a decent engine into that frame.

[Kootenanny]

I know I'm resurrecting an old thread here, but...well, I just came across this, and it shows an attitude that always bothers me.

Have either of the naysayers in this thread ever actually ridden an XB? The reason I ask is because I know the impression is out there that Buell's XBs have antique "boat anchors" for engines, and are too slow to get out of their own way. No, they aren't R1s, but who needs that on a public street? My personal experience is this: my Buell is fun to ride, and still manages to keep up with almost anyone I've ever ridden with. It feels alive, more beast than machine; it carves into corners, not effortlessly, but responsively...this is a bike that can be ridden in anger!

And, just to qualify: I own a 2003 XB9R Firebolt (yes, the "little" one), which I bought new for about the same price I would have paid for an SV650S (in other words, not "BMW type dollars). At the time, I was roundly advised to choose the SV over the XB, on another forum--am I glad I ignored that advice! (It stands as another example of how widespread the generally poor attitude regarding Buells is--I doubt many, if any, of the posters on that other forum had ever ridden a Buell, yet they felt comfortable warning me away.)

In closing, I'll mention that some who know I love my Firebolt assume that I've gotta be Jonesin' for an 1125R--but the funny thing is, I have no interest in it. I'll stick with my 'Bolt, thanks. I chose carefully when I bought it, and I continue to be satisfied with my choice.

[Costa Mouzouris]

I used to race a Buell Firebolt. The biggest improvement the 1125 has over the air-cooled bike isn't the extra power of the liquid-cooled engine, it's the engine mounting itself. The 1125 engine is rigidly mounted in the frame, which greatly improves handling integrity; handling doesn't deteriorate with time requiring occasional replacement of the rubber mounts. I love those air-cooled engines; if they were counterbalanced like Harley's Twin-Cam B engines they'd be that much better.

Costa

[bikeymikey748]

Gary, one of my buddies, picked up his Lightning last summer. Its a pretty cool bike. He says one of the things he likes best is that you don't see too many of them here-abouts.
Funny thing is, most every time we cross into the States the U.S. border agents get pissed off at him and yell for him to shut "that damn motor off" (this is a standard request, so that they don't have to speak over the sound of your idling bike). Problem is, his motor is off. It's the damn cooling fan that runs automatically (an interminable time) each and every time the motor is shut off. You have to be near to it to appreciate just how loud and annoying it is.
p.s. C. thanks for making my day (again). Always a 'kick' to be in the mag.

[Kootenanny]

The biggest improvement the 1125 has over the air-cooled bike isn't the extra power of the liquid-cooled engine, it's the engine mounting itself. The 1125 engine is rigidly mounted in the frame, which greatly improves handling integrity
Okay, I can see that (and thanks for the post, Costa--I've read enough of your stuff, I value your opinion). I can understand the advantage of having solid mounting between the swingarm pivot and steering head...but then again, isn't Buell's "isolastic" mounting system (or whatever he calls it) one of the main factors that allowed Buell to put a Harley engine into a sportbike frame in the first place? And since I sometimes throw bags on my bike and take multi-day trips, I kinda like the rubber mounting...

Many guys, though, equate horsepower with speed, and diss the Buell engine on that point alone. Maybe true on the salt flats, but on public highways in Canada, especially an area with twisty mountain roads (like where I live), the average modern sportbike is overkill IMO. I like the fact I can be kinda ham-fisted with my 'Bolt in the mountains, in a way I couldn't be on a 150 hp bike...hey, I realize my skills and reflexes are not those of an experienced racer, and I want a bike I can throw around with confidence, without needing the kind of finesse and fine throttle control you really only gain from constant track time. Like most street riders, I'd probably post better lap times on an SV650 than a GSX-R1000...I'm not Mladin, I just wanna have fun. And the 'Bolt is perfect for that!

One last thing...seeing as this thread is about Erik Buell. I've never met the man, and I dunno if I ever will. But it's kinda neat to know that the bike I ride doesn't come from a giant, faceless conglomerate, but from a small company headed by a man who actually does ride motorcycles, and from all accounts really enjoys it! Everything I've read about Erik Buell points to the man's genius; I understand enough about business to know that his association with H-D is not only good business, but VERY good business--not only is he a designer with vision, he knows how to run a business (including knowing when to get out of the way). I can think of a number of American start-up motorcycle manufacturers who are struggling to make anything happen, but the number of successful ones is vanishingly small (dunno if Victory is a "start-up," but even so...). Kudos to Erik Buell not only for designing very tasty motorcycles, but for bringing them to production!

[Kootenanny]

Funny thing is, most every time we cross into the States the U.S. border agents get pissed off at him and yell for him to shut "that damn motor off" (this is a standard request, so that they don't have to speak over the sound of your idling bike). Problem is, his motor is off. It's the damn cooling fan that runs automatically (an interminable time) each and every time the motor is shut off. You have to be near to it to appreciate just how loud and annoying it is.
Hah! I go across the border every now and then, and at one crossing, I had a border guard walking around my bike, asking me "What's that sound?" (and not in a joking manner). It's like they thought my bike was rigged to blow, or something...I stifled my usual retort ("It's the afterburner!") and calmly explained about the fan, and its function. They relented, and let me through with no further hassle.

On another occasion, coming back into Canada, when the guard asked about the bike, we ended up having a long conversation; when a car pulled up behind (this was a small crossing, not busy!) he continued to chat with me about motorcycles, then finally said, "Oh, you're cleared," as he walked back to the car. Not one of the standard questions (citizenship, time away, home address) was asked--our conversation was strictly bikes. The guard sort of knew what a Buell was (which is pretty good, most people, and many riders, don't) and wanted to learn more, so I gave him a short rundown on the company history.

In any case, the fan soon becomes a non-issue, until someone notices it, when it becomes a conversation piece. Just part of the uniqueness of Buell...

[Uwe W.]

In any case, the fan soon becomes a non-issue, until someone notices it, when it becomes a conversation piece. Just part of the uniqueness of Buell...

The new(ish) 1125R and CR continue that heritage. The sound of one Buell's fan after it's been shut off might be a quaint little quirk, but when you hear the roar of 15 track-side fans going at the same time, it can make you feel like a baggage handler at the airport.

There's no question that Buell is an underestimated brand, a point illustrated by its lack of street representation, however, given H-D's recent purchase of MV Agusta and the possibility of inter-brand development, I wouldn't be surprised if that situation is about to change drastically.

[bikeymikey748]

Hah! I go across the border every now and then, and at one crossing, I had a border guard walking around my bike, asking me "What's that sound?" (and not in a joking manner). It's like they thought my bike was rigged to blow, or something...I stifled my usual retort ("It's the afterburner!") and calmly explained about the fan, and its function. They relented, and let me through with no further hassle.



I guess that the border guards are more tolerant in your neck 'o' the woods,K. I cross into the States most every weekend during the summer. Not to turn this into a pissing contest, and understanding that I like my buddie's bike, you have to understand that at certain crossings (Alburg !) if you don't have your helmet tucked under your arm, papers in hand, motor cut off and bike placed just so it can get kinda ticklish. And a number of times when going into the States, the guards got irate because they had to raise their voices over the sound of the cooling fan believing that Gary had refused to cut his motor beforehand. It was only after Gary explained about the fan (and had to show at least one fella where it was) that we were, grudgingly, allowed entry. Believe me, I am very aware of my surroundings when speaking with the U.S. border patrol. Among other reasons, a screw-up can ruin your day if you are refused entry, and can impact any future attempts if you are black-flagged by those folks. Have you subjected yourself to what passes for roads in Quebec lately? Have you experienced the asphalt nirvana that exists in Vermont/New York/New Hampshire? Can you appreciate how little I want to ride here (Que.) for a bunch of reasons? It would kill me to be denied entry to the States. They do an important job, but seem a humourless bunch. Though one time buddy asked me to wheelie my Duc as far as I could the minute after I slammed my faceshield closed. I explained that it wasn't gonna happen because," The speed limit is our friend,". Buddy laughed knowingly and waved me through.Maybe you don't find the fan annoying, but Im here to tell you that Gary takes a fair bit of slagging about that point.
Never had any issues crossing back into The Great White North BTW.:p

[Kootenanny]

...given H-D's recent purchase of MV Agusta and the possibility of inter-brand development...
You know something we don't? I was under the impression that MV Agusta would be kept at arms length...which makes perfect sense (imagine the Euro-sportbike purists' outcries if H-D screws around with MV Agusta design...). I'd expect H-D to change the management, but engineering and product development...I'm assuming they'd leave that alone, or at least keep everything under MV Agusta's roof. Just good business sense--which H-D seems to have a bit of, whether you like their bikes or not. I can see nothing but good coming to MV Agusta from the takeover--hey, you might actually be able to go down to your local bike shop and look at or even BUY an MV Agusta at some point in the near future.

Keep in mind that Buell started as an independent builder, who made a deal to buy engines from H-D (his former employer). He persuaded some H-D dealers he knew to put some of his bikes on the floor. Every bike he built in the early years sold...H-D took notice of that, and came calling with some cash. In a process that took the better part of a decade, Buell built and sold interest in his company, until eventually he no longer owned any of it--but he always managed to keep control.

I assume MV Agusta will be along similar lines, with Harley's cash being used to support development by MV Agusta's engineers and designers (Tamburini's retirement has gotta hurt there...). Let the Italians build the bikes, while HD can improve advertising and promotion, provide better access to dealer networks in the US market, and help with financial management.

[KZDon]

I know I'm resurrecting an old thread here, but...well, I just came across this, and it shows an attitude that always bothers me.

Have either of the naysayers in this thread ever actually ridden an XB? .

Yes, actually. I went out of my way to get a test ride on the XB12X the first year it was out, after I'd sat on one at the Toronto show. It was a beautiful bike, with excellent finish quality and an attention to detail far outshining its lower, longer siblings. It fit me better than any other bike I've ridden. It handled well, cornered easily, the airflow off the screen was smooth as glass, and those brakes were phenomenal. Then I got into some traffic and rode in first and second gear for about fifteen minutes. The resulting headache from the vibration lasted the rest of the day. I haven't looked recently, but at the time its list price was within a grand of a new Beemer GS.

The price was probably the biggest deterrent to me purchasing one, aside from the odd treatment a non-cruiser rider gets at a Harley dealership, but I was also quite certain that if Buell didn't get rid of the low RPM shakes, I wouldn't buy one.

[Kootenanny]

...Then I got into some traffic...
Ah, there's the problem. Get outta town!!!:D

[Kootenanny]

Yes, actually. I went out of my way to get a test ride on the XB12X...
Well, at least you did ride one. Many people wanna slag them without taking the opportunity to try one out.

And I understand Buells aren't for everyone. Thankfully, there are a whole lot of other choices out there. I like my Buell; I assume some people even like V-stroms.

[bikeymikey748]

I assume some people even like V-stroms.

Um....My buddy Pierre loves his V-strom. Last year he went from Montreal down into Mexico. Good thing he's not reading this.:eek:
For those of you playing along at home, this is called 'stiring the pot' also known as 'fanning the flames'.

[Kootenanny]

Um....My buddy Pierre loves his V-strom.
I'm sure he does. The 'Strom is a very popular bike. However, having ridden V-Stroms on several occasions (both sizes, too), I do not understand the attraction...or maybe I do. I see them as a sort of minivan of the bike world--they'll do anything, except excite my senses; they are bikes of practicality, not passion. If practicality is what a rider values most, the V-Strom is a perfect fit.

BTW, I think this forum could use a little "pot stirring," don't you?

[bikeymikey748]

BTW, I think this forum could use a little "pot stirring," don't you?



You are correct sir. And ya, I agree with your equating Stroms with mini vans. Don't really float my boat either. 'Different strokes' I suppose.

[TimP]

I'm not sure why, maybe it's the distinct possibility that I'd drop it in the mud or drag it along the gravel if I used it properly, but for some reason the KLR650 has always occupied that "practicality" spot in my dream garage, and a 'strom of any size would make me cry if I did damage to it. Especially if I'd farkled it up the way Monsieur Rain Rider did his.

Am I surprised that a Buell rider or a Duc rider would not be turned on by a 'strom? Not in the least. Bikes are a luxury for almost all of us, and owning anything other than the one that floats your boat highest would be a shame. If and when you get to the "minivan" stage of bike-ownership, maybe the tune will change. Or not. Just pray we don't all get there at the same time or 'stroms will be impossible to get a hold of.

As for pot-stirring in a related way, the other bikes in my dream garage are:

1. Touring: Next-generation BMW KLT (rumoured to be a 2-liter V6...)
2. Scratching: Mint Ducati 916, etc. (or other sexy Italian supersport)
3. Dual-purpose: KLR650 (as good in the mud as on the streetcar tracks)
4. Dairy Queen runs: Any HD product. Don't care which one. It'll always be for sale.

[KZDon]

I like my V-Strom. I do, however, put on my helmet before walking to it in public.

Interestingly, my 'Strom riding friend and IT guy and I have both banged around our 'Stroms, and not felt that bad about it. He's gone out of his way and put some SW-motech engine guards on it, but still had to replace a mirror and a couple of signal lights. Mine has some brick wall rash along one side, and the nature of my garage and the parking of other vehicles (two minivans, by the way) means the hard cases have been, uh, christened several times.

A long time ago I recall a guitarist (I won't say who, because it's embarrising) commenting on his Fender Stratocaster versus his friend's Les Paul, saying the Strat' was a tool - the Les Paul was art. (Most) Ducatis are art, so are many Triumphs. In a way, my aged KZ was art. My V-Strom is a tool that, like, most others in my toolbox, is well made and dead reliable. My passion gets stirred by it because I actually get to ride it when I want to.

Multi-Stadas, on the other hand, are butt ugly.



(there, that oughta do something)

[bengo]

I think their is a room in Harley showrooms for such different lines of sportbikes... great thing to know about motorcycle....