Crash injuries

[sportbikecalgary]

Well, I always claim scooter folk are a bit on the crazy side. Little tires, so-so horsepower, barely adequate brakes and tight handling make for exciting rides at moderate speeds. But, what they tend to forget is that when the fall down, they fall down just like motorcycles.

I had a good friend crash his Bergman400 on friday and break his tibia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibia)just below the knee. To us that ride it's just sort of an event that one has to deal with. We dress for the fall/crash and hope to never use the gear... but occasionally it happens.

So... the question put forward to those that might know better would be: Does one's choice of ride affect the injury one can expect? For example if you low side a Gold Wing to you get hip and shoulder injuries? But if you low side a KTM690 you get knees and collar bones breaking? ... and if you front end crash a cruiser; it's pelvic and lower back stuff... Has there been any documentation on this sort of stuff? Ya I should probaly go read the Hurt report (http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~john/vfr/hurt.html)but it's getting old being published in '81.

There... something to discuss :D

[RickO]

For the last three years that I worked at Humber College doing motorcycle training we also taught people to ride scooters. These were separate classes from the motorcycle people and when I worked on the scooter training I was always struck by the difference between the two groups of people.

During the classroom intro we usually asked each student to explain why they were there -- what got them interested in riding. Almost all the motorcycle people talked about the thrill of riding or the challenge of learning a new skill. Most of the scooter people were like "Dah! I'm here because scooters are cheap and I wouldn't be here at all if I didn't need this stupid licence." Many of the scooter people were surprised to learn later that it did actually take some skill to ride, and yes, you could get hurt if you fell.

Almost all the scooter people showed up with minimal protective gear. The mindset seemed to be that they weren't riding fast like those suicidal motorcyclists, so they didn't need any protection.

The stats from the Hurt Report might be dated but many of them still apply. The majority of crashes happen at speeds under 50 kmph at urban intersections. These are exactly the conditions where scooter riders are going to spend almost 100% of their riding time.

The whole motorcycle v. scooter thing reminds me of a short conversation I had with Costa at the CC booth at the new bike show in Toronto a few years ago. I remarked that it was encouraging to see all the scooters on the floor as that should translate into more motorcycle riders in a few years. Costa disagreed. He felt (and I think rightly now) that scooter riders would dump the scooter and buy a car as soon as they could afford it. He cited a neighbour of his as an example. The guy rode a scooter and passed Costa's open garage every day. The garage was overflowing with bikes of all kinds but the kid just wasn't interested, just rode by without even looking.

[Hayabusa]

For the last three years that I worked at Humber College doing motorcycle training we also taught people to ride scooters. These were separate classes from the motorcycle people and when I worked on the scooter training I was always struck by the difference between the two groups of people.

During the classroom intro we usually asked each student to explain why they were there -- what got them interested in riding. Almost all the motorcycle people talked about the thrill of riding or the challenge of learning a new skill. Most of the scooter people were like "Dah! I'm here because scooters are cheap and I wouldn't be here at all if I didn't need this stupid licence." Many of the scooter people were surprised to learn later that it did actually take some skill to ride, and yes, you could get hurt if you fell.

Almost all the scooter people showed up with minimal protective gear. The mindset seemed to be that they weren't riding fast like those suicidal motorcyclists, so they didn't need any protection.

The stats from the Hurt Report might be dated but many of them still apply. The majority of crashes happen at speeds under 50 kmph at urban intersections. These are exactly the conditions where scooter riders are going to spend almost 100% of their riding time.

The whole motorcycle v. scooter thing reminds me of a short conversation I had with Costa at the CC booth at the new bike show in Toronto a few years ago. I remarked that it was encouraging to see all the scooters on the floor as that should translate into more motorcycle riders in a few years. Costa disagreed. He felt (and I think rightly now) that scooter riders would dump the scooter and buy a car as soon as they could afford it. He cited a neighbour of his as an example. The guy rode a scooter and passed Costa's open garage every day. The garage was overflowing with bikes of all kinds but the kid just wasn't interested, just rode by without even looking.

Bang on comments!

[KZDon]

I recall reading a study a few years ago that said, among other things, crashes while road riding and offroad riding resulted in impacts with other objects, and injuries such as broken bones and bruising. Crashes while road racing resulted predominantly in sliding and road rash type injuries.

[sportbikecalgary]

Just a follow up note on the subject of crashing. Below is the xray of my buds lower leg after all is declared repaired.
http://68.146.12.230/Neil/Misc/knee_sm.jpg
This is from a 30kph "slam on the front brake to avoid the inappropriately stopped tourist" sort of crash. He was shoulder checking for a corner when the car in front stopped. Lucky for him there were 2 policemen standing on the curb and following him was a nurse on her way to work . So there was immediate help and a couple 'official' reports stating he couldn't have done much different. He stuck his leg out to absorb some kinetic energy and it ended up as a rotating fracture. I thought you guys would appreciate it. Both for the asthetic nature of the screw placement and for the relief that it didn't happen to you. :D

[TimP]

Ouch! So much for the easy, breezy airport metal detector passage...

I expect this injury is quite similar to that of a client of mine who grabbed too much front brake and low-sided during his Sunday afternoon test after an early July weekend's motorcycle training course. He's still not very mobile, and his delicious vintage R-bike has sat undisturbed in his garage all summer as a consequence... Pity.

This makes me glad my K-bike has those stubby wings that prop it up when (not if) it goes down. Without them a) I couldn't pick it up (I had to get help to lift my old K1100RS the one time I dropped it, and the K12LT is a good 200 lbs. heavier) and b) I wouldn't want to get pinned (no pun intended) underneath that whale. I expect the GWs cylinder heads would similarly prop it up. Anyone dropped one of those?

I've been fortunate in that I've never (touch wood - ahh!) dropped my VTR. It was dropped once by some dweeb at McBride's when it was left there for a winter's "secure" storage, but nobody was riding it at the time. I think. Who knows?

Anyway, I hope your friend heals without incident, realizes the limitations of scooters and gets himself a real bike with wheels at least 16" in diameter. I'm glad he wasn't hurt worse!

[mrspock]

Crashing sucks and death clashed with my lifestyle so when riding , I always wear full and proper riding gear ... no shortcuts for me .


spock

[Paddy]

When I crashed my KZ1000 the hospital staff were puzzled that I had no groin damage. I was told that with most modern sport-bikes the tank/seat relationship is such that the high tanks very often cause some sort of damage in a frontal collision. No such high tank on the ol' KZ.
Frontal hits also often break the thumbs.

[tanyahalette]

A man jailed for causing a rollover crash on Saturday that left him and three family members injured is a suspected undocumented immigrant with a previous record of traffic violations, including drunken driving.

[Pete Z]

A man jailed for causing a rollover crash on Saturday that left him and three family members injured is a suspected undocumented immigrant with a previous record of traffic violations, including drunken driving.
----------------
tanyahalette

promoter (http://www.drivenwide.com)

WTF does that have to do with the topic at hand?

And speaking of the topic at hand, I've found that the easiest way to induce a broken collarbone is to turn an "experienced" adult rider loose on a KX85 or something similiar.

[metalredneck]

^^^^^^^^
MANY "experienced" riders break bones after a few wobbly pops on their kid's mini-bike.

[YellowDuck]

Regarding that X-ray...I am not surgeon, but that sure looks like some pretty rough work. Maybe unavoidable given the location of the fracture, but look how close some of those screws are to the places where the knee cartiledge is suppsed to be! Maybe Mike Holmes should inspect this work....

Hope your buddy is good as new. That sure is a lot of hardware.

[sportbikecalgary]

To satisfy everyone’s curiosity, here's an update on the scooter guy with the broken leg.

After spending 6 weeks on his butt, with the occasional trip to physiotherapy he's been given the ok to return to work in 2 weeks. It was interesting to see how quickly he fatigued during his recuperation. I think it had something to do with the pain meds and the disorientation of being bedridden in a low light environment for weeks. BUT... now that's over and he's got 2 weeks to get used to putting weight on his leg and learning how to balance a coffee cup while wobbling through the office. Luckily he makes his living in broadcasting so the coffee mug is about as heavy as he has to lift. There’s no doubt he'll work the "I'm still healing... can you fetch that for me" angle as long as he can get away with it. His lab-tech wife (who has had to put up with him as an invalid for weeks) is very happy to send him back to the office.