Propane

[Sidecar Bob]

Ever since I read the article about the propane bike I have been thinking about how to convert the 650. Propane is really a much better fuel than gasolene.

When our kids were small we bought a propane powered retired school bus (the raised roof extended van type) so that Kay could ferry more kids to Sunday School than was possible in the '78 Olds Delta 88 Land Yacht we had before. The mileage was better than other non raised & extended Dodge vans that we knew of and it ran a lot cleaner than any gasolene powered engine.

To begin with, you changed the oil because it was worn out, not because it was dirty - it came out the same colour as it went in.

When the engine threw a rod at about 600,000 Km we put in a replacement from a local wrecker. While we were getting the new engine to start (I had put the distriubutor in backwards) we tried messing around with the plugs and replaced a couple of the ones from the new engine with ones from the old one. It ran that way for a couple of hundred Km until I got to CTC to get a new set of wires and the correct new plugs (different heat range) for propane. When I took the old plugs out they were all spotlessly clean. THe ones I had taken out the week before (from when it ran on gas) were black & sooty. Running on propane had actually cleaned out the carbon deposits.

At the same time a neighbour had a big pickup truck that he used for hauling a house trailer south for the winter every year. It had dual fuel. He told me that they filled up the propane before they crossed the border and ran on that as far as they could before switching over, and then looked for somewhere that could fill the propane (not many in the U.S. in the '90s) so that the engine would run smooth and quiet again.

Power was never an issue with their truck or our bus, and we hauled pretty heavy loads a few times.

Maybe I can put a barbecue tank where the topbox is and convert the tank to a big glove box.....

[Canada Dan]

Everything you say is true Bob, but propane has its downside as well.

When vehicles powered by propane are involved in an accident the results can be horrific. The tanks are thicker of course, but if they are punctured or a fitting at the tank is compromised the contents leave the vessel as a vapour under pressure. If you're luck the vapour finds a source of ignition quickly and becomes a blowtorch. If it doesn't until a vapour cloud has formed and then finds ignition things get really ugly.

One that pops to mind is a school bus in southern Alberta a number of years ago that was involved in a highway crash. The bus filled with vapour then ignited with most everyone still inside. Even after the initial blast the tank(s) continued to vent until they were empty.

Great stuff when its contained - and odds are you'll mile out many vehicles with no problems, but it's not nice stuff when it's released.

Dan

[Sidecar Bob]

On the other hand, gasoline in a sheet metal tank isn't the safest thing either.

I would be interrested in the relative statistics between the two.

I can tell you from experience, though, that it was hard to find a shop that was willing to work on the propane bus. We went to the same mechanic for years for everything that didn't involve the actual propane (it had to go to a propane shop for inspection & service annually), but when he retired it took us a while to find someone else who wasn't afraid that their shop would blow up if they changed the water pump or something else as simple as that. The really dumb part is that the propane could have been turned off at the tank while they were working on it and that would be a lot safer than working on a gasoline system with a vented cap.

A cup of gasoline has enough explosive energy to lift a ton a mile.

[Rocking Couple]

I am surprised you got better mileage on the propane Bob. Must have been tuned exceptionally well.
Back in the day when propane was being pushed with govt tax exemptions &c
there were stats on fuel consumption. I don't remember specifics, but this is close. Real world testers, found that a gas P/U truck got 16 to 21 MPG.
On propane, an otherwise identically equipped truck, got 15 to 20. Subsequent tests in all conditions always showed propane consuming the most.
But they also said it was by far the cleanest burning of the two fuels. HP and torque differences were too close to call.

And during the very VERY early years of propane vehicles, propane cost/litre was considerably less than gasoline. But I think it was shortly after the government introduced the PST tax exemption on new vehicle purchases that propane prices started to rise disproportionately to gas.
Probably just a coincidence.. :rolleyes:

[Sidecar Bob]

If you knew what you were doing you could get incredible mileages, and Kay figured it out quickly. If you filled up when it was cooler and drove when it was warmer the numbers were very good. If I remember correctly, it had something to do with buying it by the litre and burning it by the gram and the fact that propane expands a lot more than gasoline for a given ambient temperature change.

When we bought the bus propane was heavily subsidized - about 1/2 the price of gasoline. They also waived the provincial sales tax on the purchase of any propane vehicle, new or used, or any equipment purchased to convert a vehicle you already owned to run on propane. Hank Hill would have been in heaven.

At the time my GL1000/Dnepr sidecar outfit that cost about the same per Km to run because of the subsidy.

I can't remember who the provincial government was at the time, but when the next government came in they phased out the subsidiess and within a year or two the price of auto propane was close enough to the price of gasoline that no-one wanted the extra hassle of a vehicle that you couldn't fill up on any corner and some mechanics were afraid to change a tire on so propane vehicles faded away in Ontario.

Now we have governments that encourage us to use corn alcohol to run our vehicles even though the energy inputs required to produce the ethanol are greater than the energy produced by burning it and using cropland to grow fuel increases the cost of food. But that's another story.

[Desert Rat]

I had a dual fuel van back in the early 90's that used natural gas. It was good for increasing the distance you could drive between getting gas, but I don't rememeber anything else good about it. I don't think it got very good mileage, but I one thing i do remember is it was gutless and almost got me into trouble often because it accellerated so slow on the NG. plus the tanks took up so much room in the van.

[John]

I recall all the buzz about Natural gas conversions in B.C. in the early 90's. The government was footing most of the bill back then. I thought about doing it but held off. One of the police cars that we had in Terrace was converted to dual fuel. It had to be started on gasoline and brought up to temperature prior to flicking the switch. Marked difference in power using NG which is not the same for propane. I drove a guy's propane-fueled truck and the thing worked like a gasoline-powered truck - no perceived difference. But that dual-fuel PC was gutless. It was 305 CID powered Chev and the tanks in the trunk plus all of the police equipment meant that thing was driving around at max weight all the time. One had to be careful about speed bumps... The range was piss-poor but it didn't cost a whole hell of a lot to run. Straight conversions (non-dual fuel) supposedly ran MUCH better for NG and picked up some efficiency. Wouldn't want to run the risk of leaving town though - where ya gonna fuel up? It was an interesting experiment.

John.